Canadian Lawyer InHouse

Q Q Q JANUARY/FEBRUARY 2018 36 INHOUSE to realize there's only so much at your particular level of seniority that you can do for one of your mentees, but you realize as you get more senior the possibilities and doors you can open for people. Women can now be sponsors, which hasn't always been the case. INHOUSE: Has there been enough done at the firms to provide opportunities to mentor? LAING: I think not only do you have to encourage women to seriously invest in mentoring and relationships and taking the time to really listen to junior women and open doors for them, you have to reward the women for engaging in that activity. That's where eyes are starting to open and recognizing the value of women supporting women not just because it's the right thing to do but also because it's good for business. It might be that it doesn't necessarily reflect on numbers on a page, but over the long run, we are seeing that type of investment is allowing us to recoup the investment we are making in our women because they are staying longer. PLUMPTON: We've always benefited from having a fairly strong group of women at the partnership level. I remember joining the firm and the lions were many, but the lions of our practice I was focused on in coming to the firm were Sheila Block and Mary Eberts who were both there doing fantastic work. But in my earlier years of practice, those are not the people I worked with the most, but I think their mere presence was empowering for me. I do think there are more systematic things to be done to build those relationships in a formal way rather than making women reach for it — so establish closer relationships with those people you're trying emulate and we try to do that. There is much more focus on having women-centred mentoring opportunities in the firm. INHOUSE: Melissa, with a smaller firm like yours how do you go about recruiting women? MACKEWN: My colleagues in my firm and others in different firms see the success you have whether it's an award from Benchmark or Best Lawyers or Lexpert and I think it encourages them to move forward. I try to be approachable and available and try to keep an eye on women in the firm and if there is anything I can help with. PLUMPTON: It's so important — I think junior women look at us and say, "How do you do it?" Sharing with junior women that it's not always easy — whatever you're seeing externally — we're all under the same pressures, this is how we manage it but don't think we have it all together all the time. I always share my stories about how I don't have it all together all the time. LAING: In fact, you have to let them see that not only are you succeeding and being recognized for it but at the same time you have to let them see it's not a cake walk and we all have bad days. Initially, I was so busy trying to show everyone I knew what I was doing that I realized I was perhaps creating a façade that was impeding my ability to be a really effective mentor to junior women and in fact the best relationships form when you talk about your bad days. INHOUSE: Is it still a challenge to keep women in these high-performance roles? MACKEWN: Yes, and I struggle with this question all the time because I don't think it will ever change. It is a demanding job. The trick is to know you and your kids will hopefully live a good long life and I say this to the women in my office — my kids are now teenagers and I am so glad I toughed through it. I love my job and find it extremely rewarding and have made wonderful friends in the work I have done. I don't think you'll ever eliminate the push and pull from having a demanding job and having a desire to spend time with your family; you're going to have to make a personal choice. LAING: I think back when I was going through that crunch period with young children and a busy practice and we just can't deny it for women and men who are parenting there is a confluence of factors. Everything hits you at the same time — the pressure to make partner is hitting generally around the time you're struggling with a young family if you're a parent. I think the challenge for our profession is to find ways to get people through those crunch years. Nothing fazes you once you've gone through that period. When you come out of it you're bullet-proof. And if you have supported them through it they are absolutely unflappable. You can send them to court and they can get yelled at and they don't care because they've been REENA LALJI Senior litigation counsel at CIBC's legal department for eight years. Prior to that, she was a partner at Gowling WLG for 10 years. Practises commercial litigation focused on class actions, securities and fraud. I don't select my external counsel because they're women, I select them because they are the best at what they do and think they can do the best for the bank and what I have found is the team I hire tend to be women or led by women. REENA LALJI, senior litigation counsel at CIBC legal

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