Canadian Lawyer InHouse

Q 37 CANADIANLAWYERMAG.COM/INHOUSE JANUARY/FEBRUARY 2018 through that period with a client on the phone and a sick baby and husband sick of being home every night with the kids. Sometimes, it's not about leaning in, it's just hang in. MACKEWN: If a woman has to take time off because the kids have the flu or you have to pick them up, I think it registers with colleagues in a way that if a man had to take an afternoon off to pick up their kids because they have a flu it would not register. I don't think it's intentional, but it's just noticed more. I had both my kids at Faskens and I was told I was the first associate to have a baby and make partner in 2001. I didn't have any mentors and I didn't feel one way or the other about it and just went through it, but nobody else was in that position to offer advice. INHOUSE: Are there any myths associated with women in litigation? BEAGAN FLOOD: I think the primary one is the one Melissa mentioned about "Are you going to be tough enough to advocate for me?" I think it's just a matter of proving yourself in conversation with clients that you are as tough and capable as the men. LALJI: I definitely felt this myth in private practice eight years ago. I see it a little since I've been at the bank, but one is that women in litigation that are on big files are the project managers — they are great organizers. LAING: Yes, it's a positive stereotype that I think can hurt us. LALJI: In private practice, I was lucky to work on high-profile files with high-profile partners, but to my determent, I was really good at the big document-intensive files so I became the go-to litigator to do that and I wanted to be the litigator who was arguing in court because I was good at that, too, but was not getting recognized for that. So that's one myth. The other one tied to that is when a team of lawyers comes in on one side and if there is a woman there is an assumption the woman is not the lead counsel. The automatic assumption is that the man is. I still see that. LAING: At a certain point, I just started telling everyone how old I am because I think people don't want to think about it or don't know. There's a phrase used in litigation that gets my back up — it's "grey hair." "We need to put grey hair on it." I think sometimes we have to go around telling people how old we are. MACKEWN: Someone called me a year ago about a market manipulation case they wanted external counsel on and they asked me questions about it. I think I've done more market manipulation cases than virtually anybody because I worked at IIROC [Investment Industry Regulatory Organization of Canada] and we did that work and at the OSC. At the end of the conversation, this guy said: "I think maybe you're a bit too young because this happened in 1999." I thought, I am 45 years old — you would never say "you're too young" to a 45-year-old man. I know this area and am not unconfident in my skills in this particular area. He wanted grey hair. It didn't matter if they had ever looked at a trading blotter before. LAING: Sometimes, grey hair is just code for man. PLUMPTON: The only myth I see that is the inverse of the "You're not tough enough" which is the "You're too tough" myth. For junior women, I think they get a lot of "You're not projecting enough confidence, you're not tough enough. You're uptalking." For senior women, there is a perception you're being too tough or strident and maybe you should smile more and maybe you're not projecting enough warmth, you're scaring people. You're too sharp-edged. A lot of characteristics being described are ones that are commended in men about strength and confidence in leadership. I think women can achieve leadership roles projecting those qualities, but they are still not welcomed. It's the whole likeability factor. Smile more — the judges will want to see more smiling from you. I'm quite sure senior men aren't being told to smile more. MACKEWN: I think they do equate those things with more emotional language. If you're tough, you're bitchy; if you're enthusiastic, you're histrionic. For example, senior [male] people who are known for being enthusiastic in their arguments; if a woman does that, it's considered shrill or shrieking or impassioned about your argument. PLUMPTON: I think you want to have lots of tools in your toolbelt, but at the end of the day, you have to get personally comfortable with your own style. IH CATHERINE BEAGAN FLOOD Partner at Blake Cassels & Graydon LLP. Primarily focused on class action defence and regulatory litigation including data breach class actions, competition and product liability class actions. Also part of the Blakes executive committee. I think it's just a matter of proving yourself in conversation with clients that you are as tough and capable as the men. CATHERINE BEAGAN FLOOD, Blake Cassels & Graydon LLP

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