Canadian Lawyer InHouse

JULY 2016 22 INHOUSE routine fi les such as real estate. If you have multiple branches throughout the country with leases that need to be renewed — that could be an easy routine thing that can have a fl at fee. Certain health and safety matters could have a fl at fee. Certain routine litiga- tion at a certain tribunal could be a fl at fee. YOUNG: I have had experience with AFAs — we do use them at PayPal. It's not some- thing that I've used in Canada and I would agree with what Lara said — I think it's really dependent on the work that you're doing. For the work I do on the regulatory side, it doesn't really lend itself. But for com- plex commercial agreements where there's a good chunk of the deal that is a known quantity, an AFA would be perfect for that and I certainly have used those in the past. I have negotiated into our retainer agree- ments a "call us" capacity, which is that if it's a small matter, I can call the fi rm and simply ask a question and I'm not going to get charged for it. They will keep track and there is a cap so that it's fair on both sides. SILVERBERG: I think it really depends. I would say for the most part we're probably asking for them in setting expectations up front. Occasionally, a law fi rm will say 'I know you may be under budget constraints' or 'I know this is an area where you would want to have a specifi c approach' and they may be proactive, but I think generally we've got to put it on the table. It makes sense for repeatable litigation or even small claims court or lease renewals — things where it just doesn't make sense to be paying straight out hourly rates for the kind of work that's involved. SOCCIO: It's a natural reaction for lawyers and law fi rms to resist it because they would like to retain the hourly billing at a non- budgeted amount, but there are lawyers and fi rms that actually come to the table and offer the alternative fee arrangement — it could be a cap on certain things, or a volume discount. I'm fi nding a mixed bag out there of lawyers and fi rms that are sort of seeing that trend and coming forth and having that candid conversation and those that are just quietly sitting there and if you ask them, they discuss it. • INHOUSE: How do you view offers from some of the big fi rms to assist with project management? THOUIN: Yes, I just had a recent experience and I think it's great. I'm a small legal department — we don't have a lot of resources — and when we do have projects, we have project managers within our corporation. When I have a big project, like Canada's Anti Spam Law, I have to go fi ght for a project manager with all the other departments who are fi ghting for the same project manager. When the law fi rm can come and offer a project manager or some kind of software to help me manage the project, absolutely, I think it's of value. SPEIRS: Absolutely, I think it's what's needed for law fi rms to reinvent themselves. When When the law fi rm can come and offer a project manager or some kind of software to help me manage the project, absolutely, I think it's of value. ALENA THOUIN, Alterna Savings We have no formal RFP process at Navistar Canada, but there is always a negotiation, there's always a discussion, there's always a request for a budget, in an informal way. ROBERT SOCCIO, Navistar Canada there's a new regulation that comes out, like CASL, we need help in rolling it out. Just a legal opinion or a memo drafting a summary of the law is completely unhelpful, that we can get through reading articles ourselves, that's not what we need. We need an execution plan, which project management can deliver. YOUNG: I see where it could be very helpful — CASL's a great example. I'm a little skeptical that it is the wave of the future, only because for the types of projects

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