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ARMSTRONG: And that is exactly my point. And the environ- ment that it creates for junior level associates . . . the environ- ment that this business model creates for junior level associates in large fi rms is horrendous, absolutely horrendous. MELENDY: I think the problem is that it is not indicative of the value that you receive. And when you try to implement other mechanisms or billing arrangements, there is always this fear that you are not going to get the quality of service that you expect because the fi rm is not getting compensated for their time. And so, therefore, they are not going to put as much time in. KINASTOWSKI: Yes, it is very diffi cult, and it is very diffi cult in areas where there is transparency required. And how do you justify the rates in a public forum? It is very diffi cult. What we have done, and it has nothing to do with rates, but when we were starting to develop our in-house expertise in IT contracts, we actually had clauses put into the retainers that they would mentor the junior lawyers to provide the training to them, so that we could develop the expertise in house. MELENDY: There are times when I have received a bill for legal services that is just exorbitant for what I actually re- ceived. I will go back to the firm, and I will just say, "No, this is unacceptable." And if they don't slash the bill, they know they won't get any more work. It is easier to do with smaller firms, where you give them discrete pieces of business, but where you have a larger firm with a very entrenched rela- tionship and a lot of history, it is harder to break away. You are almost a captive client. ARMSTRONG: Well, as general counsel, we can play, I think, a somewhat signifi cant role in this process, by insisting on a new way of doing business and supporting those kinds of eff orts. INHOUSE: Absolutely. And I think that is a good note to end it on. KREBS: Th e last word — and a powerful one. IH A complete transcript of the corporate counsel roundtable can be found at www.canadianlawyermag.com/inhouse Law Specialistson Your Team! We help you help your clients. Call us. Get Our Environmental Environmental Specialists*on Your Team! Our team of environmental lawyers includes 5 Environmental Law Specialists* www.willmsshier.com * Certified by the Law Society of Upper Canada Juli Abouchar 416 862 4836 Doug Petrie 416 862 4835 John Willms 416 862 4821 Donna Shier 416 862 4822 Marc McAree 416 862 4820 ENVIRONMENT, ENERGY & RESOURCES LAW C ANADIAN Lawyer INHOUSE OC T OBER 2008 19 Canadian Lawyer #MS07-25 – 7" x 4-7/8"