Canadian Lawyer InHouse

DECEmBEr 2014 8 INHOUSE news roundup > diversity… continued from page 7 Kunkel, adding it led to a concerted effort to revamp its governance structure around diversity and inclusion and establish goals around workforce representation, such as the proportion of women it wanted to see in senior leadership roles and an overhaul of its reporting system. Kunkel says BMO also looked at the "at- titudes and perceptions" that might be get- ting in the way of creating a culture that would support progress over time. "We recognized that in order to effective- ly embrace diversity, we actually had to start thinking more critically about what it meant to create an inclusive workplace," she said. Kunkel said the bank also wanted to look at how it could more effectively challenge judgments about talent. "Sometimes I would hear comments about particular labels that were applied, whether it be to women or about other mi- nority groups, and people wondered if that was really fair or could it be challenged in an effective way so that people would not be afraid of the conversation that might result," said Kunkel. The bank also looked at how to prompt more effective conversations with employ- ees. "We found that managers do not feel comfortable having effective career conver- sations with team members who are unlike themselves," she said. "It's not because they are not good intentioned or because they don't want to but they were afraid they might say things that were politically incorrect or they would come across as being biased. So as a result of being afraid, they would opt out of having the conversation, which of course over time accumulatively and dispropor- tionately disadvantaged certain groups in terms of advancement in organizations." Kunkel talked about "blind spots" people can develop over time that can develop into a stereotype they apply to someone who's different from them. "There's an old trope in organizations that [says] like respects like, that it's the very senior male who pulls up another male within the organization who looks like him. That is a real dynamic and often it's done unconsciously because of the way we are hardwired," she said. To help bridge the gap between law fi rms and in-house counsel on the diversity issue, Quann talked about a mentorship program recently launched with Legal Leaders for Diversity and the Law Firm Diversity and Inclusion Network. Together, they're work- ing to mentor pre-partner lawyers from the law fi rms. There are 22 participants representing about 17 law fi rms. The pilot project pairs senior in-house counsel with pre-partner lawyers from the law fi rms. One of the mentors is John Mountain, senior vice president for legal, chief com- pliance offi cer, and corporate secretary at NEI Investments. "If there is one thing I hope to convey, [it] is the power of standing up and saying, 'I don't understand.' It's the importance to challenge. Certainly for me, as a gay per- son, I wanted to be invisible a lot of the time because I was afraid of being picked on or abused, in fact. So I want to help give him the comfort that I have gotten to over my 28 years of practising law," said Mountain. Mountain said he wished law fi rms would "talk more fulsomely" on their web sites about their recruiting practices and pro- vide contact information for those who lead diversity efforts and include videos of partner-level lawyers and their experiences working there. Quann suggested fi rms that provide continuing legal education sessions should be more mindful about making sure the speaker panels refl ect the fi rm's diversity. "Make sure your panel is diverse. See if there is someone else who could speak to that issue," she said. IH Should compliance be separate from legal? S hould the legal and compliance functions in an organization be divided? As compliance and regulatory matters become more complex it is a question more general counsel are mulling over. The debate is whether chief compliance offi cers should report to CEOs and boards of di- rectors, rather than to general counsel, in an effort to create a stronger culture of compliance. At the Royal Bank of Canada the roles are split and it's something David Allgood, the bank's executive vice president and general counsel, believes is critical, especially in such a highly regulated industry. Allgood was speaking on a panel at the Association of Corporate Counsel annual general meeting in New Orleans called: "What's not legal about compliance?" "I've never had compliance since the time I started with the bank," says Allgood, who heads up a legal group of 240 lawyers. "My original thinking was that there was the potential for confl ict of interest if something went wrong. I have generally maintained that position but have vacillated when collaboration has not been ideal." At RBC the chief compliance offi cer reports to the chief risk offi cer, and compliance at the bank includes about 650 employees. Allgood said by keeping legal and compliance separate, he believes the issue of privilege can be clearer in situations where an investigation may arise. "Whether they are together or separate it is important to have a strong compliance culture," he said, adding the compliance department plays a large role in employee training at RBC. The panel, which included Allgood, Amar Sawal of the ACC, Michael Julian of AEG Power Solutions, and James Koukios, senior deputy chief of the United States Department of Justice fraud section. Koukios said the question should be addressed on a "case-by-case, individual basis." "Compliance should be tailored to the specifi c needs of the business and address the spe- cifi c risks of the business," he said. "I've never seen [a Foreign Corrupt Practices Act] resolu- tion where we have prescribed or criticized that it should be one way or the other." What should be considered, said Koukios, is threefold: is the compliance program well designed, is it being applied in good faith, and does it work? that issue," she said. IH IH I Should compliance be hould the legal and compliance functions in an organization be divided? As compliance and regulatory matters become more complex it is a question more general counsel

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